Johnstone-Billingham

PJ -You worked in children’s TV and stand up before  becoming a crime novelist?    What nudge you towards  the genre?

 

MB – I was really not enjoying the work I was doing for TV where scripts tend to  be developed by  committee. I’d taken my name off several projects before I finally    decided   I’d had enough, but even though  I’d written all   sorts of  stuff   before that  (terrible  poetry, bad  plays, my own stand-up material) I  was wary about  trying my  hand at a  novel. Once I    took the plunge, however, it was always going to be crime. Put simply, crime   fiction had been my passion from a very early age.    Once I’d discovered Sherlock Holmes, aged eleven   (me, not him) I was hooked. I’ve talked in   many interviews about how the work I’d   done up to that point influenced and   helped me. From TV writing I learned the discipline of deadlines and delivery and the importance of    dialogue, which, as a TV writer is  pretty   much  all you have to  work   with. Stand-up   taught me about engaging with your audience quickly and keeping them engaged. A crime novel contains  many    similar elements to a   stand-up  routine. It is full of  punchlines     (though usually  very dark  ones) and, of   course,    timing is    everything. I firmly believe that a   novel is a performance…

 

What   about you?  Your background is rather more academic than mine. How does a classicist come to murder so many people on  the page? Was it all that Greek tragedy?

 

PJ – No, I think it   was Homer’s Odyssey,     which I read in    English  when I  was about  seven   (precocious,moi?) – plenty    of   crimes  in  there.  Although I  read classics for a couple   of   years at     Oxford, I then changed to Modern   Greek   and did  a  Masters in  comparative      literature, much of which   involved  analysing    that well  known crime writer  DH     Lawrence.   I’m really an academic manque, whence my studying for    a PhD  in  creative  writing at this advanced     age. You   mention Greek tragedy, which  I   read a lot   of – no   shortage  of crime, murder etc    in that either,   but the  biggest    classical   influence on  my early   writing was Plato. My  Quint Dalrymple  series, set    in an independent Edinburgh  in the  2020s,    had  more   to do with the  Republic than  science    fiction, though   Orwell and   Huxley are   also  presiding  deities and   there’s a  hefty   Blade Runner  homage in the  last     book. I  think I’d describe my    approach to  crime  writing as    intellectual  rather  than  academic,     actually, even though I  know that will    lead to    endless mockery. I start a  book    with  ideas – I  don’t mean plot or   character   ideas,   though  they’re   there too, but political   or  even   philosophical    concepts. Body Politic and its successors raise all sorts of issues about totalitarianism,  education, the environment (especially  the  energy  and   water  supplies), censorship, cloning and  so on.   I like a crime novel that asks the   reader to   think.  So,big man, any problem with   that?

 

MB – No problem at all. Any crime novel    that  does   not  ask the reader to  think is  not  worth  reading,   though it does  of course  also  need to ask   the reader  to   feel. That said, I’m  wary of  any    novel that  is  issue-led. I  think if   you sit down  to write your   ‘child    abuse’ novel  or your  ‘multiculturalism’ novel   or  whatever it    might be, the  chances  are that you   will write  a bad book. I  completely    agree with   the notion  that crime fiction is  uniquely   placed to   look at   the world  we live in ways that perhaps  the     so-called  literary novel has  neglected to do in     recent  years.  But it still has to begin with the      story.  If in the course of  telling  that story,    the writer gets to  shine  a light  into  certain    dark corners of the world, to   explore big ideas,   then   so  much the  better, but…at  least for  me…story is   King. You  can   raise the issues   of course, but    surely the best way to make them      palatable, to   sugar what is not always  a  particularly  pleasant  pill,   is  to  cloak them  within a compelling  narrative.

 

 

 

PJ – Certainly  emotion and story are essential components  of a fictional  approach  to ideas, but let me go back to your  interesting  point   about the novel as   performance.  With  your background  in theatre/YV, that may mean  something different to you  than it would to  certain modern  theorists.  We could go as far back as the original   theatre/ literary critic,  Aristotle, with his unities   of    action, time and space; the   emotions of   pity and fear roused   by the performance/  text which lead to catharsis for  the    viewer/   reader;  the ideas of sin  and the tragic   flaw; as   well  as  the  concepts of ‘peripeteia’, the sudden change that   reverses  the hero’s  fortune, and ‘anagnorisis’, the moment of recognition when ignorance gives way to understanding. Critics   have  applied  these  lines of   thought to crime   fiction with varied results.    As  both  practising   crime novelist  and  theatrical type, do you find  them relevant  at any stage in the  creative process?

 

MB – These were    certainly concepts that I was very  familiar    with as  someone  who had studied drama at   university and I  think  they  can  certainly be  applied  to a lot of crime fiction.   Anagnorisis is    surely of  fundamental importance in  most   conventional  mystery fiction.   That said, I   would categorise  myself as  less of a  theorist in  this   regard and more of a  ‘shameless    show-off’. I vividly  remember writing  stories at     school and the  overwhelming buzz at being asked to  come to    the   front of the class and read it  to my classmates.   That was  an   incredible  rush. I think – and I’m really   not  being flippant   here –  that this is still part of   the   impetus for me to write  today. I am  still in some     senses performing to others (though  hopefully the  class     is a little bigger…) A writer is    performing,   providing an  entertainment –  though that  of course  can   take many forms. Added  to  that, these  days the writer is    constantly  asked to perform in a more   conventional   sense, at   festivals and so on. I know  that many writers     hate this, but  it is very much  part and  parcel of the   writer’s role  today. A  writer   must sell themselves as   much as their work. Is this an     aspect of the business   that you’re totally   comfortable with?  I’ve  happily   shared many  platforms  with you over the years and  I know how     good you are  at this stuff, but would you be   happier   going back to   those days when it was  no longer    necessary? When the  writer’s job   finished when they   had  delivered the       book?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PJ – I was fortunate to do     a  lot of touring  earlier in  my  career  and did  indeed  enjoy the  performance  side of the     business, even when  you  were on the stage with    me… But  seriously,  I  agree  that  standing up in  public and  reading  from  your work is  as  much a    part of it as the actual writing – we are,     after   all, in our small way  the  heirs of  Homer and the   rhapsodes,  who   provided the only  form of   entertainment in  their   time (well,  apart  from  cutting  people to pieces  in   battle). And  an  important  part of the   self-editing process is    rereading the    text, preferably aloud,  to be  sure it  flows  well –   especially   the dialogue sections. Is that      something you do (in a locked    room with  the  curtains  drawn, of  course  – wouldn’t want to   frighten  the    neighbours)? And do you think  it’s  actually    impossible  now for authors   to ‘make  the grade’ if  they’re shy   and    retiring?

 

MB – I think that  sadly  we   may have got to that  point. I think  many   agents are reluctant  to take  on   new authors  unless those authors show at least   some   enthusiasm  for  self-promotion.  It’s pretty obvious that even  though    you’ve  written a  wonderful book, your chances   of that  book  even being taken on  if  you’re a   painfully  shy hermit are  seriously reduced. It’s  not just  personal    appearances, of   course. These days we  are all  encouraged to engage   frequently   with  social media –   Facebook, Twitter, blogs like this one  –   and  all these   things involve time that might be  better  spent    writing. But these are the    realities of modern-day  commercial    publishing  and speaking personally, I’m    fairly happy doing all   that  stuff. And  yes…when I’m  not wasting my time  on  Twitter   I am often to  be found  pacing  around my  office reading dialogue out   loud. As you     say, it’s the best way of finding out if the flow   is  right,  if  the  words you have  blithely put into a   character’s  mouth are bogus.  For me,   dialogue  is everything. A    writer may write like an angel when it  comes   to   describing  landscape – interior or   exterior – but if they  have a  tin-ear for     dialogue, I’m not interested. The  writers I  have  always   admired are those that  can   reveal  everythingthrough  their   dialogue. Who needs   clumsy  backstory if you  can tell a  reader all they    need to know  about a character in  a few lines   of   dialogue? You can see  it in novels like “The   Friends Of Eddie    Coyle” or in the work of  the   greats like Elmore  Leonard of  course and  I think   a writer like George   Pelecanos is  wonderful  at  this. Just fantastic dialogue.    I’ve always  believed  that  it’s a good  thing as a  writer to know your   limitations;   to  have a good grasp  of the  things you’re  good and bad at. I  think   that   dialogue  is something I do pretty well, whereas I’m utterly   lost     when it comes to descriptions of  landscape  for example.   What do you  think your    particular strengths and  weaknesses  are? I’m  talking  about  writing, obviously.   Your  support for   certain Scottish sporting teams  is   clearly a huge       weakness…

 

 

PJ – It’s  never struck me that your descriptions of  place are    limited,  though that may  be a)  because they’re  urban and  thus tap into   the  classic noir setting and  b)  my  critical faculties  have been  donkey   punched by your  coruscating  passages of  dialogue. I  agree  with you about    George Pelecanos, very much the  heir to   Chandler,   Higgins and the still  very   much alive Leonard. I certainly  regard    dialogue as  more of a means  to various ends   regarding character   and plot  rather than the  jewel in   the crown.  Knowing your  limitations,  as Clint said,  is  essential.  I’m  tempted to  say –  again, not wholly flippantly –   that I don’t   have any.  This is  not a boast,  rather a   desperate attempt to convince myself  that     the world is  my mussel, winkle and, er oyster.   Realistically, I know  that    I have to  tone down  my desire to write ideas-led and   symbolic/     metaphorical crime fiction and concentrate   more on   character  development.  I think  I’m pretty good   at plot surprises  – I like to keep   myself and the   reader  on our toes. Enough  about  moi (for the time   being). Let’s turn  to  the  issue of the series.   You’ve concentrated on DI    Tom Thorne, though you have   written a   stand-alone novel  as well as   collaborating on  a teen fiction   trilogy. Was   writing a series  something  you wanted to do from   before you   were  even published? Is it a result of    commercial   demands since publication? How do   you  motivate yourself to   stick  with the  same characters,  and do you see there   being a limit  (a la   Rebus)  to Thorne’s   career?

 

MB – I always  wanted to write a series. I had read the   Robicheaux  and  Bosch  novels. I had read all of   Chandler, I had read Rebus,  Resnick et al.    Perhaps  things might have worked out differently if  I  had read  a few  series  that were past their  sell-by date, but I was    lucky enough to have read  some of  the best and I  always wanted  to do  it.  Of course, at the time I sold my  first  book, series   were the Holy  Grail and pretty much  the first  question publishers   asked about  Sleepyhead –   the first book – was, “is it the  start of a series?”   I   could honestly say then that it was  (though  I might well  have lied even if   that hadn’t been my   plan). Of  course, I think things have changed,   thanks to  the   success of standalone books such  as “Tell No One” and   “Mystic River”  from   authors who, up to that point had  been best known   for  series, but the series  remains  very  popular. I’m still very happy   writing the Thorne book,    but  remain aware that the  series has  its   pitfalls and that you have to take steps  to  avoid  getting  stale.  For me, this means stepping away from  Thorne  now and   again to refresh  myself and to  refresh the series. I   did this with “In The  Dark”  and  have just done it  again with  the book that’s  coming in August. That  is   not only a   standalone novel, but something very different to  anything  I’ve    written before. So, I’m fully prepared  to  fall on my arse. It   certainly worked  first time   around, in that I think the book  that  followed “In  The Dark”   (“Bloodline”) is one of the  strongest  books in  the  series. Taking that break  allows you to   return to familiar   territory fired up and I think  the character   is  re-energised as well.  Or you  can take a different approach   to a series:  switch  from a third  to a first person  narrative  for  example, as Michael  Connelly did   brilliantly with  “Lost  Light”. As to there being a  limit…well I   hope  I know when  I’ve reached it.  That’s the  key, isn’t it? Someone once said    that all   writers write one book too many. Often it’s more than  one,  of   course,  but the trick is knowing when that is.  I’ll   certainly stop  writing about  Thorne the  day I’m bored  with  him. If I don’t, then  readers  will get bored  with  him too. At  the moment, I’m  still enjoying  it. I like the  cast of    characters, moving them from foreground to    background and vice  versa. I like  the long  threads   interweaving…

 

You’ve  written  three different   series:  Quint, Mavros and   Wells. All very different,  of course. There is far    more action  and a lot more  on-stage violence  in the Wells books,  which, it   could  be argued  are subsequently more commercial than the   earlier   books.  Having written those earlier books, was it   cathartic  in  any way (we’re back to  the Greeks  again!) to kick   some ass in the  Wells books? And  what’s it been  like  going  back to Mavros and    Quint?

 

 

PJ – I fully  agree  that taking  a break from a  series –  even  if it’s to  write other series, as in my case – is     beneficial to the  writer. Whether it is to the  reader is another  matter  – I’ve   had people  asking for more Quint books for years.  That series  was   more  ideas-driven and overtly satirical than my    others and a new book  would clearly  have extra  interest,  given  the current burning issue of  Scottish  independece.   Of course, my  2020s Edinburgh was an  independent   city-state from the   beginning, so it  could be argued  that I’ve already  handled the   question. But  it would be  interesting to consider if a  group  of  city-states (with  Glasgow an   international centre of the fashion   industry,   natch) could come together as a  nation – a bit like   the cities   in ancient Greece did when their interests     (occasionally) coincided. The  Quint backlist has   recently come  out in ebook  form and I have a deal for   a  new book – when I get  round to writing it. The   thing with  series is  never say never.  After the  synopsis for the fourth  Mavros  book was  turned down, I   went off in a major huff  and wrote the first of  the  Matt  Wells  books, The Death  List – driven by anger and  the desire for  revenge   on my  ex-publishers and  agent. I certainly had the last laugh as   the    book is my bestselling title and did well in the US as well   as  the UK   and several other countries. On the  surface, it’s true   that the Wells   books are more  commercial, but there’s  plenty of  satire going  on   underneath – among my targets  have been crime  writers,   neo-Nazis,  Satanists, Christian  fundamentalists, the   serial killer  novel, the FBI  etc  etc. And just  when I thought it  was safe to go back in  the  Aegean,   along came an offer for two  more Mavros books. That   series,  featuring a  half Scots half  Greek  missing  persons specialist, tries  to relate the   various  very  different Greek pasts to the very   complicated Greek    present. Each book has a  different setting (cf  Michael  Dibdin’s  Zen   novels) and each is a take on different crime  genres –   noir  (very  non-urban), the political thriller,   the gangster novel. The most   recent,  The Silver  Stain,  set in Crete, has several large digs  at Hollywood,   as   well as describing the horrors of war and their   long-lasting   effects. As  you say, it’s important  to ring the  changes  before the writer  and the   reader get bored. I’m   interested by your forthcoming  ‘very  different’  novel  (and, of  course, the idea  that you might fall on your arse).   Want  to tell   us anything about  it?

 

MB – It’s about    three  British couples who meet on holiday in Florida and – in  the way   that  people often do on holiday – become fast friends.   As is nearly  always the case  with these things, this  turns out  to be a terrible  mistake. They stay in touch   when they return  home and the novel is  structured in  three parts, each of  which  revolves around a dinner   party at the house of each couple. It’s  almost  like a  classic three  act play, though of course it’s  still a crime  novel, so  there is an  extremely dark  undercurrent. On  the last day of their holiday, a  girl  has  gone missing  and this very much colours what happens between these     six people when they get back to the UK. So, it’s a  far more   ‘domestic’ book  than anything I’ve written  before and is also  the  first in which a significant   amount of the action takes  place in the  US. The book’s  shout line will almost  certainly  be something like:   “Perfect strangers. Perfect holiday. Perfect   murder”.  You get the  idea. So, we’ll see, but I’m very excited  about  it. As I  did with In  The Dark, there is a brief cameo at   the end from a certain country   music-loving copper  which will  reveal what has happened to Thorne  since the   end of Good As  Dead and therefore where we will pick him up   in the book I’m   currently writing. More and more I  think I’m concerned  with  the effects of  violence on people, the different ways that   it touches their  lives, more so  than the violence itself and  the   mechanics of it. This is what most of the  writers I   respect seem to be  doing and I’ve noticed that often it  tends to be   the way writers in  this genre go as they  get older and more  experienced. I’m  perfectly  happy  writing about violence, don’t  get me wrong, and I won’t deny    that the very act of doing so  can often be thrilling  in itself – but I  think I  discovered in  this book that  there can be as much violence  (albeit of a   different  sort) – as much damage inflicted in a seemingly   innocuous   conversation between two women over coffee as there  is in   the sort of scene I  might be more associated with. I   don’t think I’ll  be writing a cosy anytime  soon, but  there’s  not as much…blood. And  yourself? You still  spraying plenty   of gore up the   walls?

 

PJ – You  certainly seem  to be   making full use of both your imagination  and  your theatrical  background there.  Good luck with it. Two   of my Matt Wells novels were  set in the States (Maps of   Hell  and The Nameless Dead). I was  fortunate in having  an American  editor, who  corrected my numerous   linguistic and other  solecisms. As for my current    painting-the-walls-red  activities, I’ve just completed  a book, but I’m  not  going to  tell you anything about  it for the time being. So there.  I’ll  shortly  be  starting the fifth Mavros novel, The Green Lady, set   in 2004  (the year of  the Athens Olympics) and dealing with the    disappearance of a young girl (the  inspiration being a  British  toddler  called Ben Needham, who vanished on the island of Kos  in 1991 and has  never been seen since,  rather than Madeleine McCann).

 

 

Moving on, consider this. The crime  novel, and I use the term to include  everything  from cat   mysteries to ultra-hardboiled, is a curiously  conflicted genre  from a   theoretical point of view. On the one hand, the   detective’s  efforts  almost always lead to the  re-establishment of order,  at  least to some extent –  ie  it’s a conservative, maybe even repressive/   opium of the  masses genre.  On the other, protagonists – even  cops – are   often anti-authoritarian,  self-obsessed and   problematised by their jobs,  often despairing that the   criminal  side of human nature can ever be  brought under  control. Do you think   this inherent contradiction   undermines crime novels? Or are you  primarily  interested  in telling  stories that people enjoy,  without reference to   theoretical and  ideological   issues?

 

MB – You’re  being awfully mysterious  about the novel  you’ve just completed. Is it  your chick-lit opus? A   serial-killer thriller set in the early  seventies where a  murderer dispatches  his victims in accordance with  the  narrative of assorted prog-rock classics?  I’m presuming you won’t   dignify those questions with an    answer…

So, back to the highbrow  stuff.  I’m not sure  it’s fair to say that the detective novel  is by its very  nature conservative.  Plenty of writers use the  form as a way into an  analysis of the world that is  anything  but conservative and while I  would not categorise myself as such, I   reject the idea that it is  repressive or an opium of the  masses. At the same  time, I am firmly  opposed to the idea that  reading – in whatever genre – must  be hard  work/good for you.  That seems to me to be an antiquated idea that   would seem  ridiculous were you to apply it to almost any other  art-form. Does   the majority of rock music or popular cinema have less   importance than  up-itself tuneless jazz or arthouse movies? I  don’t  think that any work of art  is undermined by the simple  fact that it  does not have people scratching their  chins in a  thoughtful manner  afterwards. I said something similar earlier, but   it seems to be that  reading for pleasure is perfectly valid. I  start from the  premise of a  story that readers will enjoy.  That enjoyment can take many forms  of  course and there may  well be an examination of ideological issues in there    somewhere, but story comes first. Character comes first. I  think  there’s a  danger of over-thinking this stuff. While I  myself have  often talked about the  unique position of crime  fiction as a vehicle  for looking at the world, there  are  occasions when crime writers are  simply guilty of stamping their  feet in  the face of literary snobbery,  as though saying, “God  damn it, WE have ideas  too! WE are writing  thoughtful and  analytical stuff too!” Fine and dandy, but  you know  what?  Sometimes we aren’t and I have no problem with that. Do you not    think that the very strength of this genre lies in its size  and scope?  From  Morse to Reacher? From Martin Beck to  Stephanie   Plum?

 

PJ – I might have know you’d bring prog-rock  in.                     The   previous space was my not dignifying your questions with an etc.  There’s   so much talk about people’s next books these days –  Facebook, Twitter,  blogs  etc – that I’ve decided to write a  book without telling anyone  what it is.  Obviously that game  will have to stop some time, but not  yet… Point of   clarification – in your last section, you say story  comes   first. And then you say character comes first. But earlier you   said  dialogue came first. Is this a three-way tie or are you  being the  Guy Pearce  character in Memento (it’s amazing where  Post-Its can be  stuck, isn’t  it?)? The point is, I suppose,  that the writing process  is organic and  all its components  work together like a well-tuned  engine when things are  going  well. Can I press you some of your  answers? (Not that I necessarily   disagree, but I’d like some more  fleshing out – term courtesy  of P. Cornwell.)  What evidence do you  have for crime fiction  not being the opium of the masses?  The high  proportion of   books from the genre in the bestseller lists   suggests it  might be. It’s certainly true that many writers (including  moi)   use the genre to explore subversive ideas and attempt to overturn   ideologies,  but is that actually possible in a commercial  market,  where publishers control  what is available to readers?  (We’ll talk  about ebooks laer if we’re  still alive.) Put it  this way – while some  of my favourite crime  writers are  bestsellers, many aren’t. Would you  at least accept that some   bestselling crime fiction aims low (and  sometimes still  misses) in terms of  providing reading pleasure of a  reasonable  quality? How many  more unimaginatively written and weakly   plotted serial killers novels  does the reading public need? My  problem  (or rather joy) is that I’m doing a  PhD in creative  writing. That  involves both writing a novel and commenting on   it critically, so I’m  coming at the issue from two rather  different angles. Of  course, the  writer can merrily produce  books for large numbers of adoring  readers  and blithely  imagine that there’s nothing ideological going on – but    critics will see structures of power and entitlement whatever  the   writer and reader think. The police procedural is a good  example of  this (and,  in fact, the mysterious novel I’ve just  finished is one –  oops…). Many  people would accept that  contemporary British society  has a lot going  wrong for it, but  most cop novels end with the baddies  in jail or dead  and the  status quo re-established, even if the  protagonist has been  physically  or psychologically damaged. This is  very different  from the great noir writers  of the Thirties, Forties  and  Fifties, who were much more pessimistic about  capitalist society.   Is there a danger that telling a good story is actually   telling a pack  of lies? (I know you won’t take this personally  –  I subject my own  writing to this kind of questioning.) As  regards size  and scope –  well, I think that there was much  more of that about a decade  ago,  when publishers were less  squeezed economically. I’m a hundred per   cent certain that the  Quint novels wouldn’t be taken on by a major   publisher  nowadays.

 

 

MB – Yes, story comes first. And character. Oh, and dialogue.  It’s  turning into that old Monty Python sketch. Our first weapon is  fear. Fear  and surprise. OK, our two weapons are etc etc. I suppose  I’m saying that  these three things are fairly inseparable and are  all more important to me  when I begin a book than any “issue”. It’s  very hard for me to provide  evidence as to why crime fiction is  not the opium of the masses,  though I think Stieg Larsson is  probably the crack-cocaine. I’m not sure  that publishers control  what is available to readers. Yes, they have a very  major say in  which books end up on supermarket shelves perhaps, but almost  all  books are available from independent bookshops or online, aren’t they?   I’m not sure that bestseller lists have ever been chock-full of  ideas-led  novels and – playing devil’s avocado here – that may of  course be because  the majority of readers prefer something a little  less challenging. Or  occasionally, things that may actually seem  a little more challenging  because they have an arty-looking  jacket and are translated from  Norwegian/Danish/icelandic. Yes,  nobody could deny that some crime novels  aim rather low, or it might  be kinder to say that they could be aiming a  little higher, but I’m  not quite cynical enough to believe that the majority  of writers  aren’t at least trying to write a better novel than they  did  last time. I’m afraid I don’t quite buy into the idea that ‘noir’   writers are somehow, by their very pessimism, doing anything more  worthwhile  than anybody else. It’s perfectly obvious to anyone with  an iota of sense  that the vast majority of violent crime is never  neatly solved. Loose ends  are not tied up in a nice neat bow. The  goodies are not wholly good and are  often far worse than the  baddies. That said, there is a place for those  novels that seek to  do no more than provide an escape; to ring-fence the  darkness. It’s  not what either of us is interested in doing, but I’m not  about  telling anyone what they should and should not be reading. Aside from   Jeffrey Archer of course. No excuse for that. And I fundamentally  disagree  with the suggestion that a good story is a pack of lies.  You’ll be  suggesting that Orcs and Hobbits don’t exist in a  minute…

 

I  mentioned buying books online and clearly there  has been an enormous change  in the way people buy and read books in  the last couple of years. I’m less  worried about how people read  books and rather more concerned about the  quality of the books  available to them. Now, it’s easy for anyone – and  there are plenty  of them doing it – to write a novel in a few weeks, slap a  jacket on  it and bung it up on Kindle for 99p. I have no problem with that  per  se, but what I do see happening is that this is leading to people   demanding that the price of e-books comes down across the board.  Readers are  being hoodwinked into believing that books are too  expensive. The fact is  that books remain very cheap in this country  (try buying one in Scandinavia,  Australia, South Africa) but with  the advent of the e-book, people are  becoming convinced that they  should get them for next to nothing; that they  are somehow  entitled to get them for next to nothing. They believe –   wrongly – that the packaging and production of a traditional book is   expensive and therefore an e-book should be substantially cheaper.  The fact  is that on a £6.99 paperback, the cost of producing the  book is about 20p,  and let’s not forget that e-books are also  subject to VAT. I recently  received an e-mail from someone  complaining about having to pay £3.99 for  one of my e-books. “Why  should I pay so much for something as ephemeral as  the words?” This  is profoundly depressing and more than a little worrying.  How do you  see this brave new world of e-publishing panning   out?

PJ – And our fourth weapon is theme…as  demonstrated by the  original Swedish title of Larsson’s first book, Men Who  Hate Women.  Interesting to consider why it was changed so radically in  English.  Anyway, my point about publishers – and it would apply to agents  too –  is that they act as gatekeepers as regards whose books are published   in the first place. Of course, to jump ahead to your comments about  ebooks,  that is no longer completely the case, but I’ll come back to  that. I don’t  think I’d necessarily use the term ‘ideas-led’ to  describe the kind of book  I enjoy most – and I certainly wouldn’t  force it or anything elseon others  (at least until after the  revolution). It’s rather that there are ideas in  the books – either in  the characters’ heads or in the plot or whatever.  Dickens is a good  example of a writer who was hugely interested in ideas and  even more  in ther practical application. Interestingly, he was also  fascinated  by crime and criminals, as well as coming up with the immortal   Inspector Bucket in Bleak House, one of the first fictional police   detectives. Obviously Dickens was a genius, but he was also a  bestseller.  There are contemporary crime writers who take on  big issues and sell  well – Ian Rankin and Minette Walters spring to  mind. In fact, you’ve  done so yourself. But there are also a lot who  aren’t interested in anything  but the old tropes (I LOVE that word,  and not just because it comes from the  Greek). Of course, as there are  plenty of readers who want nothing more than  a straightforward read on  their way to/ from work – who’s to say that  there’s anything wrong  with that? It’s still a free country…just. OK with  that,  Griznahk?

And so to epublishing. It’s HERE and   there’s very little we as authors can do about it – except maybe  considering  doing the whole publishing thing ourselves. There will  still have to be  gatekeepers, but I suspect they’re more likely to be  web-based entities  (bloggers, on-line reviewers etc) than traditional  publishers. The fate of  the old-style music business suggests that  publishers who don’t embrace the  eworld are doomed. Many of them are  trying to do so, to their credit, but  change is so rapid that one  wonders how successful they’ll be. The issue of  price is a tricky one.  To be honest, I think the 99p ebook may be a passing  phase. Soon most  readers will realise that the majority of those  are trash. As for the  person who believes that words are ephemeral, I refer  her/ him to the  Roman poet Horace (crazy name…), who correctly foresaw his  work (ie  his words) as a ‘monumentum aere perennius’, a momument (duh)  that  will outlast those cast in bronze. The digital age makes this even more   certain, although there will be an awful lot of age-proof works  floating  around in the clouds. It’s immortality, Mark, but not as we  know  it.

I guess we should end by a quick mention  of our most  recently published books. What’s yours?

MB – The book that’s out at the moment is Good As  Dead, which will be published in paperback in March. The new novel – the  fall-on-my-arse one, will be published in August. Just in time for people to  read it on holiday as a warning against befriending anyone they encounter  round the pool. Yourself?

PJ – My latest hardback, hot off the press (for how many more years  will we be able to say that?), is The Silver Stain, the fourth Alex Mavros  novel, this one set in Crete and referring to the German invasion in  1941, as well contemporary issues such as  dope cultivation.

And having said that’s the end, here’s the real end. Name your  three favourite crime  novels.

MB – Trust you to finish with the toughest question at all. This list will be completely different ten minutes from now, but since you’re pushing me…OK, three books in no particular order and for very different reasons:

The Maltese Falcon  by Dashiell Hammett

The Big Blowdown by George Pelecanos

Red Dragon by Thomas Harris

God, now I’ve thought of three completely different ones…bugger!

PJ – It is a completely frustrating exercise, as you say, but my three would be the Sherlock Holmes stories (not novels), Hammett’s Red Harvest and Ellroy’s White Jazz. Arg, that makes both of us look like macho noirists. To balance that – something MB won’t be allowed to do – ha! – I would say that I also admire Patricia Highsmith and have a soft spot for the glorious Gladys Mitchell.

 

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